遥视者 #001（美军）：“他们正朝这里来”……｜乔·麦克莫尼格尔Remote Viewer #001 (US MILITARY) Sees Them Coming... | Joe McMoneagle

What was Stargate?

I will tell you that 90% of what's on the internet, what people think Stargate was is BS. Stargate was actually called Gondola Wish. It was to test remote viewing or psychic functioning to see if it was a threat. So, anybody who says it didn't work is crazy.

Who from your perspective is the most powerful entities on the planet?

We certainly are. I think we're the only aliens on this planet. The actual entities that own this planet, we've never met. We probably will never meet them because they're so far ahead of us.

What do you foresee is the most surprising thing coming to humanity?

We're going to discover something that's going to get us back to sticks and stones again.

And what that's going to be is, we'll leave that. Joe McMoneagle, welcome to the Align Podcast.

Thank you.

The other day you said something and I wrote it down and I wanted to talk to you about it later. You mentioned that time and space is not real.

That's correct.

What do you mean by that?

What I mean by that is uh many years ago, further back than I can remember, almost 35 years, the realization I came to because of the remote viewing is that space and time isn't real. We create it as we go. It's like a matrix. Uh when we do something or we make a decision or anything in life, what we create is we create a place which is space and a time that that happens. And that time is purely our creation.

But it forms kind of this web. It's like an intersection. And there it's important because our share of the experience is very small. It it like sets itself there as a weld

spot in that matrix. So over time, our entire lifetime, we build this matrix. And you've heard the expression at death and then I reviewed my entire life instantaneously. Well, I thought that was total BS until it happened to me. And it happened during one of my near-death experiences. And what happens is you find out all the other experience that came from every one of those decisions. And it fills that entire matrix in and makes it real, the entire thing.

In other words, where that little piece was, we saved our feeling about it. That we find out the effect it had on all the other humans we were in contact with that might have had some connection to it. how they received

it, how it hurt or supported them in some way. So all of our actions aren't simple. They're very complex and they change people. They change us. Usually it's hopefully for the better. Sometimes not so much, but we can't really judge it until the very end. And that's when it's kind of like picking up a brush and going to a million paint cans and dipping the brush in all the different colors that that represents and painting your body with it or your your soul or however you want to reflect on that. And that's the permanent color you're stuck with.

You can't change it. That's who you are.

You were showing some pictures before which maybe we could show them. It might not be the easiest. Maybe we could put up on the screen.

Sure.

But the things that you've remote viewed for US Army intelligence, am I saying that correctly?

That's right.

Is for a normal mind with kind of like a normal purview or relationship to reality, it would be absolutely impossible,

right?

So some of the pictures,

it's not impossible though.

So we need to reframe in this conversation kind of a new reframe of reality.

Okay. and the way that you are able to access what seems like infinite fields or frequencies of information. And it seems like you're able to in an instant kind of collapse this time space thing that we're all agreeing to and be able to kind of access any version of time space that you choose.

Is that how do you describe what you're doing?

Kind of right and kind of wrong.

How do you describe it? The way I would describe it is what what I do is I empty my mind and whatever the answers are that I'm going to get eventually see anyway. I just connect to those. The the difference between me and you is I can go anywhere in my lifetime and look for something and get it where you're going to be waiting because you think you can't. All human beings can do that. It's the reason we get warnings about things.

It's it's literally a survival mechanism. We're born with it. And back when we couldn't communicate, it's what kept us alive when the predators out there were much stronger and meaner than we will ever be. That's why we cover the earth today. No other animal does except maybe bugs,

you know, plenty of bugs, but it it's the reason why we're still here. That we're actually the superior predator. is that many don't believe that but it's true. Uh the idea here is that it it ties into what consciousness is. We believe that in conscious in the consciousness as we understand it that we're the most conscious thing on the planet. It's only us that's conscious and we could pretty much do whatever we want to do as long as we're aware and try to be doing the right thing I suppose. But in reality in consciousness that it's a consensus of all living matter on the planet to

agree that this is what consciousness is. So all the experience we are having is actually set in stone to a certain point. We're playing a part in this this sort of theater of reality. And that's what consciousness is. Consensus of agreement. When you stray from that consensus of agreement, you're doing damage to the to the whole reality of it. In other words, you're you're tearing parts of that consciousness in agreement, that consensus, and so you suffer for it for different reasons. Right now, I think a good example would be uh climate. We're we are totally ignoring climate and we're already seeing the changes.

Uh fish agree a certain way, bugs agree a certain way, trees agree, every every living thing agrees to that consensus, but because we don't think any other things participate in it, we think we're the top dog and we run consciousness, but we don't.

What are some of the most surprising things in your career or life that you've been able to remote view?

Uh the first thing uh within the first year when I was selected as remote viewer, you have to understand this program was only supposed to last like two years. When we found out the Russians were using psychics, what what you do is you find some people in the army that can pretty much do the same thing in kind of a sense. You bring them in, you you teach them what remote viewing is, all that sort of thing.

And then you have them use remote viewing to target our stuff. In other words, uh you get three to six intelligence officers. You train them. You let them go. They go out into the world. We target the White House,

the Pentagon, places like that, uh National Security Agency, whatever. And we try to collect intelligence using remote viewing. We come in after about 6 months. We turn all of our collected material over to an independent agency. They review it and if there's anything there that is threatening, they say this is a threat or this is not really a threat. If it's a threat, then you have to devise a defense against it.

So it becomes more involved. It costs money then. But normally many things are not a threat. You you just ignore them and let them go. it's, you know, it's uh not real enough to worry about. In this case, one of the problems we had is in order to test it, we were targeted on

things that they had no answers for. And the very first thing we were targeted on was a lost bomber, a Russian T122 bomber. It was carrying nukes and it went down over central Africa and they've been looking for it for years. Nobody could find it. Not even the terrorists could find it. And I mean, everybody was looking for it for obvious reasons. So, they came and gave that to us as a first test.

And we had three psychics that weren't even members of the unit yet. And they all were given the same map from in three different locations. And they put little circles on the map. And they all turned out to interlock. And we found that that bomber in literally hours.

And uh President Carter even gave a talk about it on in front of some reporters and reporters said, "How did we find the bomber?" Finally, he said, "We used our psychics." He changed our cover cover name and everything else. We had to like move and go to different buildings and stuff.

You were the first agent in Project Stargate. Am I saying that correct?

That's correct. Yes. I was first one recruited.

What is what was Project Stargate? And is there anything that is different than general consensus or people what they think they know about Stargate? Do is what people think they know about Stargate exactly what Stargate was?

I will tell you that 90% of what's on the internet, what people think Stargate was is BS. It's nothing like what Stargate was. What was Stargate?

Stargate was actually called Gondola Wish at the beginning and it was to test remote viewing or psychic functioning to see it if it was a threat. It's only supposed to last two years. The problem was in testing it, it turned out that it worked so well that we started getting inundated with with targets that we had no answers for. And so for the next 23 years, that's all we did. And we were funded year to year based on our successes.

So anybody that says it didn't work is crazy.

And basically, we just targeted problems that no one else had answers for. And I'll give you an example of the first one. And it's important because people think you get a little bit of training, you can do this coming out of the box. And you can, but it's got to be something that is answerable in a very short way. Uh, this is my drawing of the Typhoon submarine. Okay, that's not a very elegant drawing, but what I what I and another man, Hartley Trent, said, he was a remote viewer in the same unit with me.

We original six viewers. We said that it uh it was a new submarine. It was two submarines that were welded together side to side. It was uh twice the size of a normal submarine. I think it's 30 ft shy the length of a Soviet

aircraft carrier. Huge. And nobody believed us. And uh they said it was fantasy. Because what what we were targeted on was a building that wasn't connected to water. And in fact, that's where it was being built is in that building.

So

So you didn't know what you were looking for. It's not like we're looking for some C.

We were targeted. All of our targeting material was put inside a sealed envelope. So, we were allowed to see the envelope, the sealed envelope, and they said, "Tell us what we need to know about what's in the envelope. That's basically it." I would think that in order to do that in my normative perspective of the world, you would have to tap into the consciousness of someone that knows about what's in the envelope or something of the sort. And that's not at all how remote viewing works.

No, not at all.

How does remote viewing work?

We don't know.

Okay.

Okay. We have no we have no idea where the information really, we have no idea where the information comes from. It appears to come from three or four different locations simultaneously. We have no idea how this works. We just know that there's an instantaneous transfer of information. And if the targets on Jupiter or the targets in the next room, it's the same amount of time to get to the human mind.

Okay? So we since we have no idea, we don't know if there's an Akashic record or if it comes from somebody's mind or maybe it comes from everybody's mind. We don't know. What we do know is that at some point in the future, I'm going to know the answer. I will get that as feedback. And when I know the answer, maybe when I send it to

myself in the past. In other words, it's an early warning system. That's why we were selected from soldiers that had been in combat, had a lot of experience, and we're still alive. It's a survival mechanism. It's been tweaked a little bit to produce information.

Are you able to speak to yourself from the past and from the future?

No, it's I close my eyes, I empty my mind, and I accept whatever my mind gives me as an answer. It's how I process it. The problem with remote viewing is we normally have this process where we get a few bits of data and we jump to conclusions or make assumptions. What you have to understand is the way that we normally process information is what we learned since birth. And over that long period of time in schools and with ministers and parents and all those things, we learn to leap to conclusions about things based on very little information.

And remote viewing, you do just the opposite of that. You take whatever the bit of information is that come into your mind and you try to tear it tear it down into parts and pieces

and decide which of those parts and pieces are truly apparent in the target versus which aren't. And you can do that with your feeling or with testing. In my case, I call it tasting the target. I will get into a target and I'll do everything to include. lick it, smell it, feel it, apply all my emotions to every single statement about that dart to try to figure out what's real and what isn't. I save what's real.

I just just destroy or ignore what's not and I go back to the target and get more information. So, you build a picture in your mind. It's it's more of an unlearning, developing new habits and the way you process things. Normally, it's an automatic. Like in

combat, something says freeze, you freeze. You don't know what said it, how where it came from, how you felt it. You just do what your mind tells you and you stay alive. Otherwise, you don't It's It's kind of like having that bad feeling before the accident or knowing thinking about somebody you haven't seen in two years and the phone rings and they're on the phone. that that sort of thing.

Yeah. I did a interview with Rupert Sheldrake who he he did the research around morphic resonance and he's done research phone calls. Yeah,

I've known him for a long time.

Oh, cool.

Yeah,

that's amazing.

Um, for a person like myself that has kind of a normative mind.

There's the scene in the Matrix where it's in order to to I think bend the spoon, you have to realize there is no spoon,

right? How can a person begin to wrap their mind around probably the release of the mind,

I would imagine, in order to open themsel up to more than they believe is capable. It's really hard and and I'll tell you why it's so hard. But you know, I teach it here and and teaching people is extremely difficult because when you put 20 people in a room, the first assumption you make is that they'll all hear what you say. That's not true. They all hear something different because each one of those people are from a different world.

They all they all live in this context that they've learned over their lifetimes. They make assumptions that we're all sharing the same world. I don't I think every human being I meet is a different world and I can learn something from them. And so what we do here when we teach it is we

teach not only the viewing, we teach the monitoring that's the person who interacts with the viewer and we teach the the analysis because the analysis takes part somewhere else. So the viewer never gets to meet the analyst. the analyst never gets to meet the viewer and they have to understand that in order to be clear about what it is they're sending to the analyst. Nobody else teaches that. And over time, meaning a couple days, we walk people into scenarios where they're they're getting blind targeting with seal envelopes.

Nobody in the classroom, me, trainers, them, nobody knows what's in the sealed envelope. and we ask them to tell us something about it. And at some point, everybody in the class eventually

does that. And by that time, what what's happened, no matter what world they're in, they've just walked through a door they can't back out of. They're they're their understanding for reality has changed dramatically and they can't go back. So, it's you have to be very careful with it because there some people aren't stable enough to deal with that.

What is some of the wildest stuff going on in government agencies and classified operations and things of the sort? Like what do you think governments are up to? Are we still doing ESP things and remote viewing things? Did all of that get abandoned even though it was so effective?

Abandoned.

And and I'm tell I can tell you why.

If you're standing next to a remote viewer or a psychic, you're never going to get reelected. That's the great fear. So why would you pretend that you support it in any way, shape, or form? We had people, I call them double talkers. Uh they support you while you're doing it for them, but when it comes out to the news media, ah never worked. Okay? You cannot you cannot expect the general public who think it's all crap to begin with to understand what's actually going on in the remote viewing unit. uh people who approved our funding did, but even they didn't.

In many cases, I used to give demonstrations of remote viewing live on totally sealed envelopes to the very people who were making those

decisions. And at one time when I did that, I had one of those elders, those elder statesmen stand up and point his finger at me and say, "You're doing the work of the devil and you're going to burn in the fires of hell." ran out of the room. The same time, another man apologized and said, "I think you're doing God's work. Keep it up."

So, where do you go with that?

Who from your perspective is the most powerful entities or groups or individuals on the planet?

Our planet?

Yes. This planet.

We certainly aren't. I think whoever brought us here, I don't think we're I think we're the only aliens on this planet. The actual entities that own this planet, we've never met. We probably will never meet them because they're so far ahead of us. If you took an advanced civilization and a non-advanced civilization and brought them together, it destroys both. They're mature enough to understand that. We aren't.

How do you know that?

Because if we ever got brought into a room and met them, our first thing we'd be doing is trying to get something from them that we could use that would help us. And there's a lot of things that they could give us that would not help us; it would destroy us because we immediately turn it into a weapon. That's what we do.

How do you know that?

Origin of the human being.

Yeah.

I don't have a clue.

Okay.

I think grand engineer wherever the cosmos came from.

Yeah.

I I happen to think that all life in the cosmos is kind of an automatic event. It kind of comes out of the design of the cosmos itself. I think the idea of a singular god that uh has has total uh opinion on on us and then what we do whether it's good, bad or or whatever. I I don't believe that. I think it's our responsibility to be good or bad or however we want to to to deal with it. The the inherent good in human beings is a natural thing. the bad in human beings is not natural. It's an aberrant uh activity as as my mind goes. So, we're totally responsible

for whatever it is we do.

Why is it that in order for u remote viewing to work, there needs to be some level of consent.

It's the way of things. It's you have to understand we're not the only ones that have the capacity. uh animals have the same capacity. Uh they have an inherent feel for when something's about to happen or they make their decisions uh based on other other things that are happening within their purview. Uh, a bird has to be totally focused in one part of its mind on finding the tiny little seeds in the sand that it eats for survival.

At the same time, it has to have another part of its brain. It's looking for the predators going to kill it. So, everything has a specialty in terms of how it thinks or operates.

We do birds, fish, bugs, everything. And I think even trees, I'll give you an example. Trees are all finite lives. Every tree is a different lifetime, different life spread. Some are 20 years old and die. Some are 900 years old. The the tree when it comes into the knowledge it's going to be dying because it's reached the end of its lifetime. it the pherommones it produces change and they the the wind spreads them for 60 kilometers and every bug and bird and animal that can get something from that tree knows that tree is dying and comes to it and takes whatever it can. The tree gives it up willingly. That's the consensus. The tree understands why it's

here, what its purpose is. It falls into the dirt. It rots and provides food for other trees. So the natural forest is constantly changing. It goes from acidic trees, soft woods into hardwoods and hardwoods in the soft woods

and it's communicating to itself through the mycelial network which might be invisible to you if you're not aware of it.

Exactly. And we we have that same process.

The difference is the tree is more knowledgeable of its process than we are. So there's a consensus that that keeps the stability of reality maintained and we're not paying attention to our need to mature. Everything we do, every new discovery is accidental. I believe that. You know, we discover things by accident. As soon as we discover something by accident, what's the first thing we do? Turn it into a weapon. Because we need to have superiority over all other people on the planet.

Yeah. Bombs started off as fireworks.

Exactly.

It was for fun. It was to play.

Exactly. And and that's not maturity. Maturity is understanding just because you discover something doesn't mean you should do it. Maybe you shouldn't do it. That's being mature. That's being responsible. That's understanding your place in the matrix.

What do you think the original point of sin, for lack of better words, in human culture arose? Like there's um books, you know, the Bible, like Adam and Eve and things of the sort, taking the apple. At some point it seems like there was probably a break of sort where things were cooperative and integrative and cohesive and coherent and then there was a break into competition and separateness and duality and like attacking you because you're not me.

Well, I can I can tell you initially we we had no language. We had no written word. We had nothing to reference or learn from. So we were basically just like any other animal. We were operating instinctively. And that instinctiveness was also overlaid with the psychic ability, the survival mechanism. So you had small groups of humans, uh, small families of humans initially that couldn't talk to one another.

They could grunt, point, and that sort of thing, but we could also be sensitive enough to read one another's minds and actions as they were happening. So when the the men in the tribe or the family unit went out and hunted a dangerous animal, that entire hunt as it was processing, every man in that hunt understood what

every other man in that hunt was doing. So they were they were observing it. They were getting it intellectually. They were getting it also from a psychic standpoint.

Yeah.

That understanding. The women in gathering were all out in the, you know, the high brush looking for roots, uh, edible roots or something. And when that saber-tooth tiger crawled into the tall grass, they'd all turn and look in the same direction. They'd all back up it because there's safety and numbers. They knew, they could feel it, and they they communicated that between them. So, there's a lot of psychic functioning going on there.

Now, here's the problem. If you're operating with a high level of psychic functioning and you uh meet another tribe, family tribe, and you decide you're going to share the cave together. So, you're sitting with these strangers now. You're sitting there in the cave across a fire and the guy across from you is a stranger. You don't

know who he is, but he, you know, he's checking your spear out. He's checking your woman out. So you come across the fire and cut a throat because he's a threat.

So that's not going to work very long. So mother nature steps in and says, "No, no, no. We can't have that happening." So filters are put into the mind to slow that capability down. So they have to develop a language. Then they have to develop recording devices like books and writings and pictures and all that sort of thing. And we we've not let go of that. As modern as we are, we still have to be on top of all other human beings.

We identify as a culture and that culture has to survive over all other cultures. It's time to let that go. It's time to mature and understand that we're all human beings.

It it it's a it's a maturity thing.

And at one point, wouldn't hypnotic ability be one of the greatest advantages for survival, for example, to be able to heal a wound or some type of sickness within yourself, to know that there's a predator coming

um and things of the sort.

And then at some point there was kind of like a divorcing ourselves and like a like a a condescending on those that believe they are psychic or have access to something more than just this material objective dualistic world. From your perspective or maybe just as a as as a knowing uh are all human beings psychic?

Absolutely.

They just don't know it. They they operate on an instinctive in an instin instinctive way normally anyway. It's like uh I think at some point we realized that humans were like that that we had this instinctive nature that there there was ways that we were thinking and operating that transcended normality. When that was noticed the first thing that happens is they spiritualize it and in spiritualizing it it then becomes a religion

and different religions are formed but that maturity hasn't happened. So, it's still one religion over the other instead of one culture over the other.

Yeah.

And and it it's all about survival of the fittest. Got to be on top, got to be ahead, got to be the one that decides. So, everything we do is a weapon. And and we we fail to see the maturity part where all human beings can live peacefully together if you're willing to compromise, if you're willing to give.

Yeah.

I think I think it's rooted in something even simpler. Trade. I think eventually the world will come to the understanding that trade is absolutely necessary to survival. In other words, right now we're we have we're producing more babies on this planet than we can capably feed. At some point, we're going to have to pay attention to that. And when we do, food and the distribution of food's going to become significantly needed to help feed people on this planet.

You've been through some crazy

Yeah.

In your life,

you could say that

What happened with you in a helicopter where you broke your back?

I didn't. What happened is um we got waved off a landing in Vietnam. It was very hot and the air at the ground level was very thin. So helicopters didn't just lift off like they do in nice cool areas. They had to take off a little bit like a plane. You know, get a little bit of forward motion going and they lift up into the cool air and then they can do anything they want. Well, we were landing at Pleiku City and we got waved off because it was a C130 coming in with a smoking engine or something. So, we went over these trees where it was cooler. So, we're hovering at about 100 ft over the trees

and we have all the doors open.

We're actually holding the doors open with our feet and I was sitting in the doorway when, wouldn't you know it, there's this strange guy down there in the brush and we call him Chuck. He stood up and hit us in the belly with an RPG and we fireballed and I got blown out of the helicopter sideways. I don't remember it, but I woke up on the ground in the sitting position. I still had my ruck on and some of my equipment and uh I had compression fractured everything in my spine.

So I spent 3 weeks in traction in a MASH unit, and then they gave me a big bottle of Percocet and said walk it off, which I did. It goes away after a

while but then later when the arthritis has done its damage you start getting some pain. So, I I dealt with about 38 years of nothing but agony.

How many bones have you broken? How many replacements have you had? Like, how much of your body is human at this point?

I've got two 6-in rods, two 21in rods, about 50 pins in my spine. I just had the last disc that was okay that was behind my neck here, uh, repaired. I have a steel not steel a titanium pin in my left knee to my left hip and into my hip joint. My right foot's got artificial toe toe joints. It was crushed. My right hand was crushed and rebuilt. Uh left shoulder I didn't have for a couple years until they put a different kind of apparatus in there.

Now I got an upside down shoulder over here that can only go this high. Uh, right shoulder's been replaced. Right knee, I'm getting ready for a third knee on the right side. Left knee

is twice.

How many time How many times have you almost died in your life?

Three that I'm aware of. Probably. Well, no, actually uh more than that because when I retired, a few months after I retired, I had five heart attacks and I was uh hospitalized in a little country hospital. They only had a a single ICU. and they were trying to move me from there to the university hospital for open heart surgery, but my heart kept stopping. So, I don't know, eight or 10 times I died in a little hospital over 10 days.

What was the closest to death that you've been or the most dead you've been, I guess I could say.

Uh, supposedly supposedly 38 minutes without a heartbeat or a breath. I don't believe that. I think I probably took a breath every 5 minutes or something or I got a heartbeat every now and then. Uh I don't for a second think I was dead completely, but that's the most profound near-death experience I ever had.

What happened?

Um I was poisoned. Um, I was uh meeting my I could meet my wife for dinner and a weekend in a guest house of my choice and uh she couldn't be around for the work I was doing at the time. So, she's back at our at the facility I was running which was a small border operation. And so uh we met in this this guest house and uh we had before dinner drinks and I started feeling really sick. I didn't want to be projectile vomiting in a restaurant.

So I got up and headed for the door and when I hit the door it was a swinging glass door. There was a snap like you snap your fingers and I was standing on a cobblestone road

and I was looking at my hands because it was a summer rain, you know, one of those soft rains and the water was going through my palms and I went, "Oh crap." And I looked up and then my body was half in and out of the door and I watched him load me into a car and take off. So I was flying along beside the car.

Your body was flying along. Your your astral body. Is that appropriate language? I know Robert Monroe would use this

and I was looking at my hands because it was a summer rain, you know, one of those soft rains and the water was going through my palms and I went, "Oh crap." And I looked up and then my body was half in and out of the door and I watched him load me into a car and take off. So I was flying along beside the car.

Yeah.

I was consciously trying to keep up with my body.

Is astral body a term that you would use? I know I know we're here in the Monroe Institute in a cabin that you built and where like this is one of the most profound places in the realm of

I wouldn't call it and even here I would not call it an astral body,

right?

I don't know what it is. Okay. I can tell you that in the out of body condition, it's um it's very difficult to deal with because everything you touch affects you in a different way than when you're conscious

or when you're in your body. In other words, you you back out of your body into what you call the astral body or whatever. I I don't know what that is. If you if you back out of your physical body consciously, you may back into a crystal chandelier. I know that's going to distract you for the next however long you're going to be in there going, "Oh, oh, wow. This is like amazing." Uh, everything's a new experience cuz

you probably become like that of a child in that situation.

Exactly. And the Bible says unless you become like unless you change and become like that of a child, you won't make into the gates of heaven.

you probably become like that of a child in that situation.

Do's department of defense.

Department of Defense, correct?

Um I guess it's Department of War now or something. Correct.

Oh, yeah. Right. Anyway, I was able to do that. I worked with Bob Monroe. That's how I met him here. Uh, we spent almost a year working in his lab to get me to the point where I could generate an out body.

Where are we right now?

Somewhere it we're actually in the uh mountaintop part of the Monroe Institute.

Where is this room?

This room? This is by Monroe's office

actually. What's the pyramid structure with the large crystal?

That's meditating. There's a hot bed in there where he could lay and meditate or anybody could go in there and meditate.

What's some of the wildest that's happened here?

Oh, people meeting orbs 10 ft tall. Uh, it's just weird stuff, you know. I mean, people have experiences here that they can't explain.

Yeah. and uh the more they have experience. I I'll tell you the weirdest thing I ever saw. Somebody asked me once, uh, could you send me a picture of a CHEC unit I'm going to be in? That's what they call the rooms, you know, with the little private sleeping areas, CHEC unit,

and they play the the sounds and they go through the experiences.

So, I went into room 14. It's uh up around the uh the open area, I think, back in the corner. I went in there and I opened the door and I took a picture and I took it with a Polaroid and and the picture that came out was a purple spiral in the center of the room just hovering. So, I did what you're supposed to do. I pulled that film pack out, marked it, put it to the side, put a new film pack in, went inside, shut the windows, shut all the sources of light down in the entire room, and from an opposite corner, took another picture of the center of the room, and there it was still hovering. So, I pulled that film pack out, put another one in, and laid flat on my back on the floor and shot

straight up through it. And there it was in the center of the picture spiraling up to the center of the the the ceiling. Then I took all three film packs, all three pictures, the Polaroid camera, and I sent it to the Polaroid research lab. And I said, "Tell me what's wrong with my camera or the emulsion." And they kept it for 6 months. And it came back with a letter saying there's absolutely nothing wrong with the camera.

No fracture in the lens, no anything that could have caused that. And all the emulsions are perfect. Not a single one different from the other. So this we cannot explain it and we don't know why it happened. Okay. We put those in a frame, glued the the letter from

them to the back of the frame and hung it on the wall. In two days, somebody stole it.

Why?

I have no idea that we started screwing things to the wall after that.

It's it's that kind of thing. Um, so this is would this be maybe the most important place and like how would I call it? What's what's like what is like not psychonautic research? What do you call ESP?

ESP. No, I don't think it is. I think that would be the uh the uh Rhine lab, J. B. Rhine's lab. And

how would you describe the Monroe Institute?

Monroe Institute.

Yeah. What does what does the Monroe Institute mean to like to Earth and to to to culture?

I think it's the most profound place on the planet to learn that things aren't like we think they are and that affects everybody differently. I'd

So your body is riding alongside the ambulance. We got we went through we had to cross the border twice.

Yeah.

Uh we got to uh Passau, Germany to a clinic and I I'm watching and take my the driver who is my generator mechanic taking my body out of the back seat carrying it farmer you know fireman's carry to the door and the door's locked and I went well that shouldn't be happening. Maybe I'm dreaming this. So he starts kicking the door and the inside door opens and this doctor comes out and unlocks the door.

The doctor's in a wheelchair and I'm thinking this is getting better and better by the minute. I'm beginning not to believe any of this stuff. Took me inside, laid me on the in the emergency room on the the I don't know table, I guess you'd call it.

You're watching this?

I'm watching. I'm hovering over it.

Right above.

Yeah, I'm watching and they're cutting my clothing off.

How do you feel? How does your your How do you How do you call this second body?

I thought I was dying.

No, but how do you call the body that you're in while you're hovering?

Well, see, I wouldn't call it a body because I don't know I have a body. It's my mind hovering there. It's like I have eyes and ears and everything.

How do you feel at that time?

At that time, free.

Yeah.

Yeah. I I feel like what I'm looking at is a very primitive picture.

Okay. And I'm watching that and I felt heat on the back of my neck where my neck would be. I'll put it that way. And I thought maybe I was like real close to those bright lights in an emergency room. So I turned to see what it was and it was like bang. The whole place was gone. And I was just floating somewhere

and and then I had nothing. It was like just me, like a proverbial me, however you want to phrase that.

Floating in this uh place which was the most comfortable, beautiful place I'd ever been in my whole life. And I was enveloped in this brilliant light, but it wasn't hurting me in any way. It didn't hurt my eyes. if I had eyes. It It was just comfortable. And the a voice said, "You have to go back." And I said, "No, no, no, no, no, no." And I started looking for something that I might glue myself to so I couldn't leave.

Yeah.

Wherever that was. And there was another snap and I sat up and I was naked under a sheet and I had tubes up my nose and all that. I had been comatose for about 12 or 13 hours. Wow. and and it was a German patient next to me. And I looked at him and he looked at me and freaked. I didn't know why, but he did. And I said, "It's okay. It's okay. God's a white light. You can't die." And he ran out of the room.

And they came in and sedated me. I woke up the next morning and I was on a gurney and they were lifting the gurney into the back of a uh stretch limousine and all the windows had uh tinfoil taped over them and I couldn't move. I was really strapped to that gurney and they took me

to Munich and put me in a the uh an empty leg of a rest home I think it was and I was in the last room and all the other rooms were empty on that particular wing and I was there for about a week and I went through three psychiatrists. They they thought I had significant brain damage from lack of oxygen or something. And I just kept saying, "God's a white light. You can't die." And they were like trying to get me out of that space.

Wow.

And I wasn't coming out of that space.

Mhm. Um, they let everybody think I was dead that the unit that I was in charge of uh including my wife, my first wife, uh, for I think about 8 days. She didn't know I wasn't dead. That that killed the marriage, let me tell you that some other things. But um eventually I had a psychiatrist I knew had probably had this experience with somebody else because he leaned over when nobody was looking. He leaned over and says if you want to get out of here you have to act normal and so I smiled and leaned over and says what's normal

and that was an assassination attempt. You believe? Uh, everybody believed that they weren't sure who it could have. Oh, maybe it's the Russians or maybe it's, you know, they couldn't figure it out.

How well known was Project Stargate at the time?

Well, it didn't exist. That was when I was overseas working in it.

When Stargate happened, how well known was it like globally? Was was and was other countries doing the same types of of programs?

Uh, well, Russians had a program. Uh Dr. May and I went there a number of times when the wall came down and met our counterparts and they gave us credentials so we could go in and out of their secret place.

Yeah.

What did people think about you, the five other men that were a part of Project Stargate? What did people think about Stargate at the time as it was happening and you were coming up with all this amazing information?

As it was happening, there were two kinds of people. Uh people in the lower echelons, agents on the street, people out doing the work that we were giving them warnings for and stuff like that. They loved us. In fact, they had they come by and say, "I love what you're doing. Keep doing what you're doing." That sort of thing. and uh one in fact uh said, "I love coming by here because it's always guarantees a six martini lunch." Um so the lower echelon love this. The people

at the highest level, senators like John Glenn and uh Senator Cohen, that sort of thing. These really powerful senators knew they couldn't be damaged by us. They loved us. It's the bureaucrats in the middle that really hated us because we were we were presenting them with very cheap ways of getting things that might take jobs or reduce income to certain areas.

Yeah.

And so we were doing the work of the devil. we were, you know, playing in the mystical area, that we were inventing all of it, you know, that we were lying and cheating and doing all that stuff and we weren't. It it uh scared them, I think, made them uh uh not like us to a certain extent.

Yeah.

The experience is uh something like this. I arrive at work. It's a normal business place. We have secretaries, typewriters going, transcribers, that sort of thing. And the colonel comes out of his office, says, "I have a mission for you." We cross the road into another building where there's just this empty room that has a cod in it, a table with a chair. Everything's the same color gray. There's no nothing to catch the eye like a pile of books or any of that stuff.

The idea is to be as clear and clean as possible. And the target is laid on the table in front of me. It's in an envelope. It's sealed. They say, "Tell us what we need

to know about the problem in the envelope." That's it basically. And then I just draw whatever comes into my mind or I talk about whatever pops in my head. And having more information than that would distort your picture potentially.

Absolutely. It would steer you off the reality because there's no honest answer there if you're given a hint. If somebody says, "Tell us what we need to know." And bear in mind, it should fit in the trunk of a car,

right?

What does that do to your mind when it could be a hot air balloon?

Yeah,

that will fit in the trunk of the car. What's what's

an example of the most astonishing hostage type situation that you've been a part of or missing person situation you've been a part of?

That would be mon we were all monitoring the hostages in Tehran for 14 months. And what we didn't know at the time is they had about 60 people, 30 to 60 people off and on who had just been there and had come back. So they knew what the color of every room was, the pictures, the rugs, the furniture, every the layout completely. And so each one of us had certain number of hostages by name that we had to monitor.

Now in this case, we knew them by name. And so or not by name. No, I take that back. We didn't know their name specifically, but we hostage 1 through 10 or 10, 11 through 12, that sort of thing.

Um, we had to every every time we targeted them, we had to say what their health was, how they were being treated, what the guards were in the room, general descriptions of the room, and anything else we could perceive like what's on the other side of the wall, what's in the courtyard next door, what's through the window, that sort of thing. But we didn't know there was a window. We didn't know there was a courtyard.

Those were all things that had to come spontaneously. Everything was spontaneous. What we didn't know is they had brought all these people in that had just left there. So they would take our reports and they would look at what we said about the furniture position, the colors, the, you know, the windows, anything else we said. They would know

if it was correct, right, wrong, how right, how wrong, that sort of thing. and they would give an assessment, a percentile of accuracy on all the statements that were known. Now, the problem was they of course didn't know the condition of the hostages. So, if we gave them all that information, they and we were 85% correct about the description of the room, then they assume we're 85% correct about the description of the hostage condition, that sort of thing.

So you got something you can gauge it by. That was important. Over the course of all those months, we started picking up on bizarre frivets of things. We weren't absolutely sure what those were. So we didn't know how it

tied into the uh hostages. Like I give you an example, Hartley Trent. And again, again, the guy I knew best, he was a better remote viewer than I'll ever be, by the way. He said, "You know, they've got nothing. They've got a whole bunch of spiders living in their courtyard." And I said, 'What are you talking about, Harley? He says, "Spiders? Nobody's interested, but I'm telling you, there's spiders all over the courtyard, the trees, just everywhere in the trees."

And what we didn't know was they had a way of checking that. Uh, I can't go any further than that, but they did. And what the spiderw webs were were wires to claymores. All the trees were claymore in the courtyard. Now the army's famous for

when they make a raid on something, they need a distraction. Usually they crash a helicopter right into the heart of the problem and that courtyard would have been perfect, but it would have killed everybody on board if they had done that because of the claymores in the trees. So that was a that's kind of the way that remote viewing works. You get you get ideas of things and you need to check it out. When you do it turns out to be something that

and to confirm the information to make it worthwhile to actually like engage with the target that you have, you have to have multiple points of confirmation.

Right. Exactly. And so we're picking up on this stuff. So we didn't know what it meant. So we made an addendum B. And I walked in the office one morning and the colonel said, "Oh, it's the major then." He wasn't promoted, but the major said, "Uh, I want you to go to this office in the Pentagon. They want to talk to you." So, I went over there and I reported and there was a colonel there. I reported to him formally.

You know, you're salute standing at attention in front of his desk and he ran everybody else out of the room. And when everybody was gone, we're standing there facing each other. He's sitting at his desk. He pulls open the drawer and pulls a 45 out, racks around it, lays it on the table on the top of the desk. He says, um, you know,

there's, uh, like 11 people in the world that know we're planning a raid to rescue the hostages in Tehran, and I got number 12 standing in front of me. He said, I need to know what your source is. And I said, you know what I do? And he said, yeah, and that's I said, 'N no, that's what I do. He says, 'Well, you're not walking out of here till I know what the source is. What do you do with that? So, I sit there a minute.

So, I told him something about his wife he didn't want to hear. He already knew. And he got really pissed off. And I turned around and walked out. all the hairs down up on the back of my neck.

Now, he knows I wasn't lying. He knows I'm good at what I do and he hates my guts, but I mean, what do you do with people like that?

Do you see anything pop up with me?

With you? No.

No.

Curious.

If I did, hey,

let me know.

I will tell you if I did, I would never say I did.

You know, I I've been on television 51 times in seven countries doing a demonstration of remote viewing.

Yeah.

Totally blind. Okay. They've all worked. And while I'm standing on the stage in front of 20 to 35 million people, particularly in Japan, they'll pull somebody out of the audience and they'll say, "Can you describe this woman's living room?" And I'll look at the woman and I can tell you that that would be an egregious invasion of her privacy.

Yeah.

And I'll say, "Sure, but I'm not going to." Or I'll try to remote view it and it won't work. I'll take the hit. I've done that many times.

You can you are highly consistent and reliable with things that are of great importance, particularly when it comes to the well-being of

that are moral.

Yeah.

And ethical

and less reliable with things that are of less import.

I fail 30% of the time.

Why do you think that is?

It's either I fail 30% of the time or I mean to fail 30% of the time,

So you're riding along the the side of the ambulance, you go into the hospital, you're floating about.

So what is the difference between remote viewing experience, outof body experience, lucid dreaming experience, waking consciousness?

That's great questions. Let's take them one at a time. We did we did a it in uh the sleep lab. the Dr. Stephen LaBerge's sleep lab at Stanford University. We did a number of experiments on lucid dreaming. And when you're lucid dreaming and you're you're wired up to a a monitor that that says what's going on in your head, uh the reason the only reason for the monitor is to know when you are actually dreaming.

When you're you when you're going into dreaming state, you produce what are called sleep spindles. when you get into actual dreaming becomes a nice REM result and that that REM is very noticeable and that tells

them that you're in deep sleep and you're dreaming. Okay. If you recognize you're dreaming, you can actually signal them and say, "I'm consciously awake and aware in in my dream." And the way you do that is you do this left and right over your shoulder four times very rapidly. And there are four little tiny points that pop up right on one of those REM nodes. Now the REM shows you're still in your dream but you're awake and aware.

They can produce a target. You go to the target. You collect all the information on the target. And then you signal them a second time. and they wake you up and you report on the target. The first time I did that target report was perfect.

I woke I was in the dream. The problem was in the dream I was sitting under an apple tree on the side of a green hill watching people bicycling on this path. I realized I was dreaming cuz the sun looked weird. So, I signaled them and then I knew there was a target somewhere in the lab that I was supposed to be seeing and it was a picture and it was inside a sealed closet that had duct tape around the outside edges.

They didn't know what the target was. Nobody did. I was supposed to go through the wall into that closet and look at the picture. I didn't even know where the lab was. Okay, I'm in a lucid dream. So, what I did is I thought about it a minute in my lucid dream and

I thought, "Okay, I'll close my eyes, click my heels together, and when I open my eyes, I'll be in the target." And when I open my eyes, I was standing in a Bavarian valley with a barn at the bottom of the valley and wild flowers everywhere and mountains in the background and a Mercedes parked by the barn. So, I walked down to the Mercedes. I looked for keys. No luck. I went in the barn. in the barn.

It was so real. I was having flashbacks to my grandfather's farm where I used to work with him over summers. So, I studied the place. I spent like three hours goofing off in the barn, signaled them another time. They woke me up. I drew the scene as I had seen it when I

opened my eyes. And it was a perfect match for the target

only. It was reversed 180.

Also, the entire sequence was 5 minutes of dreaming in the lab. For me, it was 3 hours in the barn.

Wow.

That that's the way that works. Now, what happens when you do this too much, too often, too many times each day, you start having what's called a false awakening. I'd signal them. They wake me up. I'd do my reporting into the mic. I'd draw the picture. And while I was drawing the picture, a wolf would come in the door, walk around, climb up onto a chair, and start speaking English to Dr. Stephen LaBerge.

I'd know I'm still dreaming. Signal them again. I'd wake up, pour it into the mic, draw the picture. He'd take the stuff from me. I'd say, "I need to go to the men's room." I'd unplug the umbilical cord, walk down to the men's room,

no lights. Oh, must be a breaker. And I'd look down at my fingers passing through the light switch. You get six or seven false awakenings in a row. you start thinking this is why people are nuts.

Mhm.

So we discussed it and killed the whole program because if we were to play with this too long and write a report on it, there would be people out there stupid enough to want to try to get to that state and they would be crazy.

Do you believe remote viewing is more accurate for detecting information than an out-of-body experience?

When it works, it can be extremely accurate. But no, I don't think it's any more accurate than walking into the room and looking. It's all about perception.

Perception's everything. You know, we if I said walk into this room, this room here, walk into this room, spend 10 seconds, count to 10, and then come out and tell me what the room's for. You get basically what's called a gestalt of the room. You only see enough to tell you what the room's for. If I start questioning you about the pictures on the walls, what kind of chairs, what the floor is made out of, you couldn't tell me because you only get enough information to decide where you're standing.

That's the way life is. We operate by gestalts. That's one of the big problems about remote viewing. It's actual ground truth. So when you're looking for

information in the remote viewing state, you can actually get ground truth about it and it will usually center around the need. The need is decided by the uh um uh intent intent everything. And in the way I would explain that in in the Stargate program, every day was a life and death target day. So everybody in the room had the intent to save somebody. Okay. So we were running in the 70 to 75 percentile for accuracy. Okay. Go to the lab. They couldn't do better than 30%. But let's look at a remote viewing in

the lab. You got the remote viewer. We know the remote viewer wants to be successful. The scientist, you can fail or succeed. He gets to publish. It doesn't matter to him one way or the other. The monitor is a postgrad. They hired him at $10.50 an hour to monitor remote viewer. The transcriber, the secretary, the file clerk, all the rest of those people don't care one way or the other. So, what's the only person out of five that wants to be successful?

20%. And they're running 31%. That's significant, but it's not 75%. So they, oh, they must be cheating. Well, no. When I retired from the army, I went to the labs. I worked at the Stanford Research Institute. I worked at

Science Applications International Corporation. I worked at laboratories for fundamental research. I worked at uh another lab I can't remember right now. And I was at the the the studies lab at um Los Alamos that we leased. I I will tell you this. I got 39 years in the labs. Dr. May says I have 41, but I'm pretty sure it's 39. I can tell you remote viewing is absolutely real. There's there's 1.8 million words of science that backs it.

There's less than half of that for why you might take an aspirin every morning to prevent heart attack. And that studies, those studies were done by pharmaceutical companies that make aspirin,

right?

So, who do you trust?

And what about the the near-death experience? Where does that where does that exist on the spectrum of of consciousness? There's the near-death experience. You're going into the white light. You're having a life review. It's like some version of consciousness. There's the out-of- body experience. You're traveling alongside of the ambulance. You're able to see yourself from above. Yeah,

there's the remote viewing experience. You're able to snap yourself into any moment in the time space continuum or whatever the best language for that is.

Some some are objective observations and some are subjective experiences. Okay, you got to be careful of the subjective experiences because like I said, every human being is in their own world. We don't know what their background is from a cultural standpoint, a learning standpoint, their parents, their ministers, their teachers, their professors, their work. We have no idea what their makeup is.

So every human being you meet is in a different world. You understand? So everybody does things, receives things, perceives things differently for whatever reasons. The only way to understand if

everybody's perceiving or thinking or feeling the same thing is through a study that's done under controls

in a lab. So, it's really hard to say with a near-death experience because it's an it's a subjective individual occurrence experience that happens without their control because of something that takes them close to death. Um, I think everybody that has a near-death experience experiences it in a different way, but there's enough similarities to take information out of those commonalities and you could make certain statements about it.

But since no one really dies, is it near death or is it a learning experience? What seems clear is that we exist in a very small fragment of the total spectrum of consciousness and the like you see that with the visual

spectrum that we are able to see is a very small like micro fragment of the actual total spectrum. Same thing with the acoustic and same thing it seems with the spectrum of our own consciousness of how we perceive

and we're very we'll fight over that little flake of consciousness it seems as well which is interesting to me.

Well, I would accept the subjective experience and the near-death experience by a number of people. I would accept that before I accept someone's belief that when they die, they can wait for their wife to die and catch up.

Or when they die, they go to heaven or hell or when they die. That's all mythology in my mind.

Sure.

Because there's no coming back to tell you. Yeah.

In in in other words, uh there's ways of studying this, but you can only go so far. My assumption is that everything we know that comes out of a near-death experience, you know, assuming we've got lots of data from lots of people, is probably going to tell us more about the edge of consciousness than it will about death. The death part is a I think it's a total surprise. That's where we find out that we're not only us.

We're everybody we interacted with while we were here. It's a learning system. It's a growth. It's a change changing way of deciding whether we want to stay

what we are or become something greater or something smaller or something different.

We can wrap up soon because there's dinner and things, but I want to ask a little bit about your thoughts on

you mentioned that human beings are a like an extraterrestrial being. They we are aliens.

Yeah.

Can you say more about what you mean by that?

Yeah. I I got targeted on Mars. It made me very angry because if I can't prove what I've targeted it to some extent at a later date or whenever, in other words, for that feedback period, then I get upset because I'm not learning better things about remote viewing. I'm not learning more about what makes a good remote viewer. So when that happened, I kept all the material. I went to Jet Propulsion Laboratory on the West Coast.

I I got a packet when I gave him the GPS locations. He said, "Oh, that's the old city of Mars." He actually opened the drawer and gave me all the 4x4 negatives for those areas that I had targeted. I came back here. I took him to a photography place and I

said, "Go to these locations and blow them up as best you can." And they they're all in my book, Mind Trek, because I wanted to be sure what I targeted was real. And in fact, everything I targeted in described is in mind.

So they were real targets. I it so intrigued me that I got together with another man who actually works at JPL and over a couple years we have collected a lot of places, a lot of pictures on Mars that are totally inexplicable. They show foundations of buildings, uh machines that are broken down and partially destroyed, uh paths, roads, mines. Uh, one of the one of my best pictures is a in a 200 mile radius in middle of the sand dunes next to an impact crater is a shipping container. It's 33 ft long. It's 15 1/2 ft wide and it's 12 1/2 ft tall. It probably weighs 2 1/2 tons. Where did it

come from? It's been there forever. Um, so my perception is everything that I remote viewed on Mars had humans involved. They're just like us, only twice our size. That's account. You can account for that over gravity. So, I'm making a a long hairy guess that that's probably us and something happened on Mars that was eradicating us as a as an entity and we were brought here deliberately to save us.

What do you think is on the way in relation to disclosure of extraterrestrials?

I don't think it's going to happen.

Okay.

We may find out there are other beings, entities, but we're not going to find out anything else about them because they're just too far advanced.

And you believe that extraterrestrials started showing themselves more around the time that we discovered nuclear weapons as a

I don't know if they're extraterrestrial or not. I think they're actually residents of this planet from the beginning. and they show themselves because they're concerned that we're going to do something we don't want to do or do something they don't want to do.

No, I think they're showing themselves because we're on the verge of making another discovery that's going to develop into a threat to them. You know, every time we become a threat to them, we get knocked back to sticks and stones. In other words, uh, last time was the big flood. You know, every continent on our planet knows the mythology of the big flood. It eradicated most human beings. I think that that happened before and before that and before that.

There's a great book, it's called Forbidden Archaeology by Michael Cremo and Dr. Thompson. Uh, it's first publication, maybe 450 pages. the last one which was the fifth I think

uh 900 pages and what it is it's all the all the archa archaeology anthropology by very famous archaeologists and anthropologists it's all the papers that they couldn't get p published because it didn't fit the scenarios humans have been on this planet modern humans over and over and over again for the last 20 million years.

What do you foresee is the most surprising thing coming to humanity?

Surprising thing.

Yeah.

Um we're going to discover something that's going to get us knocked back to sticks and stones again.

Yeah.

What that's going to be is going to be something like

start to star travel instantaneously. And and you know, if we discover that, we're not going to jump from one star to the next without a 20 megaton in the back room.

And that's going to make us a huge threat to entities that have given that up millions of years ago.

They won't eradicate us. They'll just knock us back and hope we mature again. I think that's happened more than once.

If there was one thing that you could leave to humanity, to to me to people listening in like the pretty outstanding life that you've lived, if there was one thing that you could leave piece of wisdom for people, what would it be?

They won't eradicate us. They'll just knock us back and hope we mature again. I think that's happened more than once.

we're trying to fight it now with with drones cuz we can't draft enough people. It's It's ludicrous. Wars of occupation are gone. They're long gone. We're about The world's about to be taken over by business. There are already huge businesses right now that occupy five or 10 or 15 countries. And the idea that because their headquarters is located in America does not mean they owe total allegiance to America.

Now their profit making spread across the planet. Big business is going to take over and and we're going to be victimized by business. It the idea here is we have to learn more about developing a foundation

of uh integrity and reliability in terms of our morality and our ethics. That's the only way to make the planet better in everything. It's got to be in everything. And I don't mean it from a spiritual standpoint. I mean it from a pragmatic standpoint.

What's the most impactful way to develop the ethics of culture?

Show what you can do for others. No matter what it is you do, there should be some way of dealing with it. I had I did some work for a mining company in one of the states. I I was uh paid as a senior vice president for 12 years as a remote viewer and I taught them that they could make more money dealing with the land sales after they mined it than they could while they were mining it. I showed them that they could make more money by spending money to help their towns and their cities that they operated in. and the the actual owner uh after working for him for 12 years, we were eating dinner one night and he said, "You know, if I knew spending money would make so much more

money for me, I would have done it 35 years ago. They just don't know."

What do you think the most fundamental part of a human being is? Like what's what's fundamental at the at the most core level of human

fundamental our need to be better than someone else, to have more than someone else, to control people. It It's in everything. It's in our nature. We got to give that up. We got to mature to the point where we understand that when everybody has the same amount, everybody's happy.

Do you think we'll do that

eventually? Maybe once we get knocked back to Sticks and Stones two more times.

So you think that culture is going to get knocked back to there's going to be another younger dus great flood type scenario where we we go back down

whatever it is it'll be engineered uh could be a six mile wide asteroid striking the planet it it's because we become a threat

to other things like to the very the the consensus of agreement that we have within in consciousness that's here. We're a threat to that right now. And you see what's going on with the climate. That's our responsibility. That does that's not the responsibility of fish and bugs and trees. That's our responsibility.

Are individual people powerful in being able to to shift the change and course of events for the future?

Not right now. Because most of them are fighting for for living. you know, they got to feed their families. They got to ensure they get the right educations. They got to close their families. They got they have jobs they want to do. And and as long as you have those that need to be in control and those that can't be.

Is there a solution?

Yeah.

What is the solution?

Ease off. I mean, when there's a certain level of money you can make that you're very very comfortable and nobody can take it away from you and you can make more money. But when you reach a point where if you started in the next morning spending wildly and crazily and by the time you die you will have made more money. That's craziness. That's absolutely crazy because somebody had to make it okay for you to do that.

In order for somebody to make it okay for you to do that, you owe them something. If if it's stabilizing their lives, that's enough. But they they don't see it that way. Uh people with that kind of wealth

don't walk on the same sidewalks. They don't breathe the same air. At least they don't think they do.

But when we get knocked back to sticks and stones, we're all going to get knocked back to sticks and stones. It's It's a a cloud. It's like chasing a cloud.

Well, that sucks, Joe.

Yeah. No, I'm not saying there's nothing wrong there's nothing wrong with being wealthy. There's nothing wrong with having lots of money, but there's a responsibility that comes with it.

Yeah, but we're just we're we're screwed. It's all going to get knocked down to zero anyway.

Well, no.

The fundamental core of human beings are we're competitive animals

and we're going to blow ourselves up.

We need to learn not to be competitive animals.

Well, what the do we do?

Well, I just told you take care of one another. Just simply take care of one another. There's nothing wrong with that. Look, look at what you can do when you're being taken care of and you're taking care of others.

You got art, music, you got beautiful history that's carried on for millions of years

that we're we're missing. There's miss we're missing something.

Yeah. maybe become more like more like the out-of- body person, the the the playful and explore things of

and and you know that's that's something to pay attention to because that's a lesson. That's a perfect lesson right there. When somebody's out of body, it's that it's that crystal chandelier. They realize there's a lot more to it.

Yeah.

You know what? One of the most interesting distractions I ever had in the out of body condition when I was sent to do a target was I had to pass through a steel vault door. It was like a big thick bank door with, you know, the big lock on the front and all that. And as I passed through it, it was different than going through a wall. I could feel the molecules sucking on mine. It was a really weird feeling.

And I passed through it and I went, "That was really weird." I came back through it again. I went, "Oh, oh, that's crazy." Back through it again. You know, it took three out of bodies to get through that freaking door.

Yeah.

I think we don't know anything. I think life is so much more interesting and amazing and all inspiring that we that we allow ourselves to believe.

Exactly.

And so, unless you become change and become like that of a child, you won't make it into the gates of heaven. So, if you come into a place where you can begin to just notice and get out of your busyiness and get out of your normaly and get out of your to-do, if you're in a state of do, do do is exhausting. If you can come into the state of be, you access infinite information, infinite wisdom, and you realize that you're connected to all things and you are all things.

There's no separation between you and that. And if you were hurting or anything or loving whatever, you're loving yourself. If you're hurting someone else, you're hurting yourself.

See, see, you were lying when you sat here and you asked all those questions. You know exactly what's required.

We all do.

Exactly.

Everybody knows all the answers. There's nothing to find out. You know everything.

Just be human. The one and know it.

All right. All right. I love you, Joe.

Yeah.

I love you, too, man.

All right. Thank you for being

That's it. That's all. Thank you for tuning in. See you next week.

Thank you guys so much for watching. If you enjoyed that episode, you might also enjoy this episode over here as well as this one over here. Thank you for subscribing. Appreciate you. I will see you in the next video.